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View Full Version : What class do you think is opposite a cleric and why?


Badaf
05-31-2000, 10:32 AM
Not sure why i thought of this question. Ive been playing around with several other classes and then posed this question to myself. I know at our first levels we are pretty much the same so this begins after those intitial "melee" stages

First i would immediately dismiss the other 2 priest classes for obvious reasons (healing & buffing) and paladins for the somewhat the same reason.

Next we look at the other melee types. This would seem a logical chose at first for opposite cleric. Well I have played a warrior for a combined 58 levels (31 and 27). There are some similarites. Not sure if these are just from my view point being as ive played both or not.

But warriors have certain "duties" in group combat as do clerics. Both have to keep their eyes on the health bars of casters and react accordingly when they get agroed. And many clerics often "tank" mobs, meaning they agro them on purpose to focus their attacks on themselves and away from less protected party members. So therefore i dismiss them as opposite.

Since rangers are "kinda" tanks and have preist based spells i will toss them in as well.

Lets turn our focus to pure casters for a minute. I know that each class is its own special class but they do have a binding thread. Mana. It this one regard clerics and pure casters are the same. We all must use our avaliable mana in the most effective mannner to benifit the party the most. Some might argue that Wizards deal damage and clerics heal damage but to me thats not enough to classify as opposite. Necros and Mages are not as mana dependent as the rest of us because their pets can contribute substanially after they have used all their mana. So these 2 class are more opposite the cleric in this regards.

Back to meleers now. That leaves 3 more melee types. SK, Rogue, and Monk. Ill go ahead and throw in the SK cause it has taunt and has mana to cast. Its tough for me to judge these 2 as i have not played them. Both are high damage dealers with no taunting other than thier damage output. But since these and clerics compliment each other im not going to call them opposites.

Well we are winding down somewhat on my views. Im left with 2 classes basically. Necro and Bard. I have limited experience with both (9th lvl necro and 12th level bard) so my analysis is far from complete. Necros are probably the least group dependent class whereas cleric are, by design, almost group requirements. Both still rely on mana managment in a party though.

Therefore i will have to go with the bard. When playing my bard i lose focus on what any of my party members are doing. My "job" is to twist my songs and do it well while im attacking a monster. Maybe its just because im still new to the bard class relatively speaking but the constant switching of songs and instruments/weapons is quite a challenge in itself at the moment.

Badaf.

(note these are just my rambling thoughts. please dont take offense if you think i have somehow "degraded" another of your characters in my comparisons. that is not my intent.)

Meddik
05-31-2000, 11:25 AM
I would say Wizard. They are very focused at dealing damage, with few other things of interest. (Ports)

Whereas, we are mainly focused on Healing/preventing damage with few other things of interest. (I consider Res/buffs/cures/heals and stuns all to be in the prevent/Heal category)

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Meddik Sawbones
Master Healer of Orbis Honesti (http://24.17.100.201/~orbis/)
(Bristlebane Server)

By-Tor
05-31-2000, 11:30 AM
Roleplaying wise its obviously Necros. Also Paladins are the opposite of ShadowKnights (lay on hands vs harmtouch).

Necros deal in death (look at the names of their spells), clerics deal in life. Necros also are complete solo types that are "outcasts" whereas clerics cant solo so well and shine in groups.

Ofbac
05-31-2000, 11:31 AM
Well the key, I think, is to define opposite.

Opposite in play style? Warrior/monk/rogue

Opposite in group role? Wizard maybe.

Opposite in "philisophical alignment"? Necro? SK?

And at one extreme of opposite from every class is the humble bard. The bard is unlike anything else on norrath in play style.

Rayne
05-31-2000, 01:34 PM
Well, I have played:

Monk: Level 22
Paladin: Level 18
Shadowknight: Level 14

The monk was fun for a while (FD is just awesome), but has waned on me lately.

The paladin got old much faster; too close to the cleric.

The shadowknight is just a pure pleasure. With a class A weapon he just obliterates yellows. Once I get him to 15 I expect soloing to get even easier (reverse kite). And I feel he would be a good compliment to a Ranger buddy I'm trying to catch up to.

The necro would be the opposite in philosophy, but the SK is more opposite in play style (melee/damage dealer vs caster/healer).

Rayne

vfelia
05-31-2000, 02:26 PM
Necro.. it's in the defintion of the class

necros are the masters of the dead
clerics are the masters of the living



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Vfelia D'var
Tunare
http://www.clericsofhate.com
http://www.eqstuff.com

Thailog D'Lich
05-31-2000, 02:59 PM
Necromancers naturally.. http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/ubb/smile.gif

http://www.geocities.com/thailog001/Thailog.jpg

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Thailog D'Lich
36 Dark Elf Necromancer
Tarew Marr Server

Walbort
05-31-2000, 03:28 PM
I think the monk is most opposite the cleric.

I offer the following oversimplified generalizations to provide specious and unsupportable justification for my claim:

Clerics are item-bound (WIS and AC), monks are the least item-bound of any class.

Clerics always need money for items, spells, or reagents later in life. Monks often have trouble finding things to spend money on.

Finally, as my dear friend Seby remarked the other day about her monk, there's absolutely nothing she can do for anyone else- she just focuses on doing her job and that's it...very refreshing for a cleric who keeps dying because they don't look at their own HP bar...the monk, both by design and roleplaying background, is very self-focused, as opposed to the others-focused cleric.

Just a thought.

Walbort
Bristlebane

Whackem Smackem
05-31-2000, 04:01 PM
A druid... Doesn't make much sense, but what class has been bashed the most on this site? I believe it's best put by one message topic I remember... "Damn Druids Part II"
hehe

Seolta
05-31-2000, 04:40 PM
Necros.
Duh.

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Seolta Bra'ch Anam
Level 52 Vicar of Life
Rathe Server

bellsong
06-01-2000, 09:11 AM
if opposite is per ROLEPLAY then its necros....( more later)

if opposite is by play style in a group....its monks or wizzies, who ONLY do damage.....think about it, a wizzie can sit all day long, ignoring the rest of the group, and if he stands up once to burn, hes doing his job... both are so designed to DO damage, and dont really * have* to think of the group......( some do , but they dont have to)


now necros...i hope you all listing them are doing so because of the roleplay aspect, which is 100% true


but gameplay wise.....we share SO many spells with them.....group heals, fears, divine aura etc....


if you think back to the " old " roleplaying days, an evil cleric ( remembering here that EQ necros are not made to burn dd) was one who foloowed an evil god, and healed in " sick and twisted ways"....they truely raised the dead, but only to use them for gain, they used disease, and deciet .....they worshipped their gods strongly though

hmmmmmm sounds like an EQ necro to me,

what other pure caster cant be agnostic?

if verant wanted to , they could get rid of evil clerics , give necros a few more heals and buffs, and serve the same roleplay purpose


and no, i am NOT saying to dump evil clerics, just that they could do so in the name of roleplay....butttt....if they did , maybe you guys would have more quests

Rayne
06-01-2000, 10:58 AM
Totally off topic, but while playing my newbie SK I was in a group of low levels (11 - 14) in Kurn's Tower. A few in the group were genuine newbies (wow hehe). Anyway, one guy gets smacked down, but is unconscious. I break out of the fight (with my SK) and bandage him back up. Pure instinct.

Anyway, I got a hoot out of that one. SKs are not known for their healing abilities.

Rayne

Greggery
06-02-2000, 01:46 AM
I have to cast my vote for the monk as most opposite. It is the only class with whom clerics share no ability. A close second would be the rogue (but not first because of equipment dependence and invis to undead). Instill doubt is the closest to a shared ability that these two classes have with clerics.

Necromancers and bards are closer to clerics than most classes.

In the case of the necro, clerics share quite a number of spells, including some whole spell lines (ward undead, fear) and a number of individual spells (spirit armor, invis to undead). Philosophy doesn't cut it as clerics can be just as evil as any necromancer. I have even seen necros fill the cleric role in high level parties using life transfer spells combined with lifetaps, clarity and bard mana songs - it works very well if done right, although it is not pleasant to do.

Clerics and bards share even more similarities. Both are plate classes but not tanks - both can wear plate because the taunt effect of the magic used. Both have middle-of-the-road HP, both can heal, fear, stun, and lull, among other talents. They are the only two classes that can group heal. Both classes can cure poisons and disease, buff all five resistances, and provide AC buffs.

Cosmos Inglorion
06-02-2000, 05:12 PM
Tis the Necromancer. Master of dead vs. master of life. Some of the spells clerics and necros get are similar, some are opposite, but . I present my case:

1) The necro gets banish undead at 49, clerics at 44.

2) We raise the dead back to life. Necros animate the dead in the form of pets.

3) Necros lifetap (take away life), clerics heal (give life).

4) Paladins are part warrior/part cleric. Shadowknights are part warrior/part necro.

5) I think, but am not sure, that the races that can become clerics also can choose to be necromancers, and vice versa.

Tenken
06-02-2000, 06:47 PM
Well as far as I can see, you can play clerics in a few ways, but there are only two ways you really "should" play a cleric.

A) Solo: As a wizard in plate that can heal themselves.

B) Grouped: As the person that keeps everyone alive (or as many people alive as possilbe) while running at maximum pulling/xp/loot/fun efficiency.

So if I were to pick opposites:

A) Solo: Monk? Someone who can't cast spells, can't heal (well mend but not really heal), and can't wear plate.

B) Group: I'm hoping there is no opposite for a cleric in this respect as this would be the class responsible for getting the group killed http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/ubb/wink.gif If I were to guess on this one I'd say Paly's http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/ubb/wink.gif [Note: I *know* there are some good palidins but I've run into more insane pull-crazy crackhead paly's then good ones, so that's just me] =)

Tenken Heavensword, 55th Templar
Cazic-Thule

Dalrin
06-02-2000, 10:14 PM
High elfs can not be necros, other then that yea

Majyqah
06-03-2000, 11:05 PM
Enchanters!

Not really, I just felt bad that my favorite class wasn't getting much mention. http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/ubb/wink.gif