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Old 01-31-2006, 01:28 PM   #46
concernedeq
 
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I thought some here might be interested, but this message board and post was linked on Terra Nova.

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nov...gold_farm.html

With lots of comments on that site if any one is interested in reading.

I've also been contacted by a few who are interested on doing stories on various subjects such as the Chinese influence in the market, as well as how SOE is handling this issue and what they have (or in this case, haven't) done and what they can do to locate and fix these game breaking issues when they are kept secret and hidden by those exploiting them due to the huge amounts of money involved.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:48 PM   #47
concernedeq
 
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I wanted to mention in addition to the above, what I find most surprising about how this is being handled is the entire mess that the whole EQ population had to go through in the past few weeks. The bugged vendors, which were in game for only a couple of hours and probably had less influence on the overall game economy than a single days worth of this duped plat entering the game, caused thousands upon thousands of people's characters to get rolled back, massive amounts of customer service time devoted to it, and huge headaches for the playerbase of which many still remain unresolved.

You have to wonder why SOE has chosen to not pursue something which is working to much much greater effect and detriment to the game than a few hours of bugged vendors.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:49 AM   #48
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the banker was not a "few hours" it was in exsistance over 2 weeks.

and dupes, specially those where client side hacking is used to "bend" the game rules, are a lot harder to find.

remember, EQ was not built with tracking these kinds of problems in mind.. it had to be tacked on.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:48 AM   #49
Saroc_Luclin
 
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Did anyone ever actually SEE that supposed 'banker' or was it always 'a friend of a friend of mine says their guildmate used this banker in befallen'?

I can't wait for a year from now when people are talking about the Beta Merchants and will be going on about how there was an AA merchant in the Library at the same time which people used to get max AA's, and treating that as Fact.

As for the duping in general, the best thing thing to do is try and find out HOW it is being done and reporting that to SOE. (And no, saying "Macroquest" is not saying how it is done in enough detail). If you can say "Tradeskil lcombine X is profitable and macroable" or "Selling vegetables to merchant Y gives 1pp each veggie" is something that can be tracked down and fixed.

It wouldn't hurt, but, on top of petitionning, /bugging it in game (and/or PMing the Devs) with the name, server, time and locations of people you think are in the process of duping might help them get to some of the holes fixed as well.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:57 PM   #50
concernedeq
 
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Hurk when I mention the issue where people were rolled back I am talking about the beta vendors which got pushed to live in the recent patch and created the roll back mess every one had to go through.

The Befallen banker was a doctored up story, but whoever did it back then did more good than they realize I think. It created some panic and the real issue was found and got fixed.

Unfortunately Saroc, the players are not going to be able to find things like other players sending off bad data to the servers to create plat out of thin air, or other players somehow manipulating task timers and completions to get a 100 plat task reward every second. Stuff like that wouldn't be noticed in game, so it really is up to SOE to detect and fix the issue. Unfortunately with the holidays, a new expansion coming out, and large amounts of other issues with the game itself, I don't think this will get a shred of attention until or unless something big happens with it, or the players get fed up with it and start to complain. The problem is that the longer this goes on, the more damage it causes slowly over time and the harder it is to repair. Think of it as a DOT in EQ compared to a direct damage spell. What gets scary is once the DOT wears you down to the point a direct damage would kill you.

I am urging the people responsible for fixing these issues at SOE not to wait until that point.
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:02 PM   #51
Saroc_Luclin
 
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Certainly players can't tell if someone is manipulating task rewards or any such thing. But if you know that CharacterX on ServerY is being used to launder/sell duped plat at TimeZ, then that gives the Dev's a starting point to trace back from.

Remember /petition and /bug go to two different queues. /petition goes to the GM's who can handle investigating the actual instance, but /bug is the one that goes to the Dev's. In an ideal world, issues would be passed between GM's and Dev's, but this ain't anywhere near an ideal world.

By using both tools you let both parties know, and they together can start trying to track back throuhg logs to figure out where the plat appeared to do a fix. Of course like everything that probably isn't an easy process, especially since plat isn't tracked as cleanly as items are.
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:57 PM   #52
Maebe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saroc_Luclin
Certainly players can't tell if someone is manipulating task rewards or any such thing. But if you know that CharacterX on ServerY is being used to launder/sell duped plat at TimeZ, then that gives the Dev's a starting point to trace back from.

Remember /petition and /bug go to two different queues. /petition goes to the GM's who can handle investigating the actual instance, but /bug is the one that goes to the Dev's. In an ideal world, issues would be passed between GM's and Dev's, but this ain't anywhere near an ideal world.

By using both tools you let both parties know, and they together can start trying to track back throuhg logs to figure out where the plat appeared to do a fix. Of course like everything that probably isn't an easy process, especially since plat isn't tracked as cleanly as items are.

Have you tried this?

I have.

Nothing came of it.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:46 PM   #53
Pini Uldar
 
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Quote:
/petition goes to the GM's who can handle investigating the actual instance
What game are you playing? /petition goes to a level 1 support stooge who will try to pick out keywords from your message, and then cut and paste canned responses to reduce the number issues in the queue as quickly as possible.

Maybe if you raise enough of a stink it might get to up to someone who can do something. Unfortunately, I'd bet if you post on a public message board and a big thread erupts that you're more likely to get your point heard than using /petition. Or maybe I'm just jaded...

- Pini
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:27 PM   #54
cantril
 
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I've found that calling them on the phone and causing problems helps get things to happen.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:33 PM   #55
concernedeq
 
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/petition does not work like I think you think it does. You will get a GM, who will look at the petition and usually send a canned response. If you are lucky and that petition is not closed right away you may notate it and get another response. If you are reporting an exploit or bug they will tell you to use /bug

If you use /bug, I think it just goes into the trash and is never looked at again. In the entire time I have been playing EQ, I have reported hundreds of bugs and not a single one of them has been fixed until I notice that players are complaining, and loudly complaining, about it on the boards and in game.

That tradeskill combine I /petitioned and /bugged well over 10 times since I learned of it, among others. It was never fixed Saroc until I PMed *you* with the details. That shouldn't have to happen. /bug should work, and I shouldn't have to go through someone with SOE connections to get a bug fixed. It's troubling to know that that is what it takes, though.

It is also troubling that even though it is glaringly obvious there is some form of exploit pumping millions upon millions of platinum into the game every single day, that it is not being dealt with, and will not be dealt with until I or some other player finds out what it is and lays it out for customer service in exact detail, or the players get struck with an extreme problem such as happened 2 years ago, and they are forced to fix it. It can't be that hard to find and fix. It's their game, it's their systems. If they are really trying on this and can't find it and can't fix it, well, now that's probably even more troubling.
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:11 PM   #56
concernedeq
 
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This is still going on. To show the impact this type of activity has on the out of game economy, I'm going to list up what the price points were at various times in the past 5 years. You can see the dips in prices due to exploitation and the rapid decline in the "value" of the platinum piece. You can also see where this value returns to after an exploit is fixed. Since that value after it is fixed corresponds with how much items cost in game, you can see the effect in game from these as well (lower prices out of game indicate higher prices in game).

Unfortunately if you do not buy platinum, then you are regulated by the in game mechanics and merely stuck with higher prices for things without any way of getting platinum at a faster rate, while those who wish to "cheat" and buy plat now have an enormous advantage.

09/2001 $1500
09/2002 $450 <--- cheese macro and others
10/2002 $400
12/2002 $350
06/2003 $195 <---- bow macro and others
08/2003 $279
09/2003 $250
11/2003 $65 <---- infamous dupe
01/2004 $90 <---- dupe fix
02/2004 $95
05/2004 $89
08/2004 $59 <---- another exploit
11/2004 $62 <---- exploit fix
02/2005 $55
06/2005 $40 <---- Gamingnook unlimited plat
09/2005 $35 <---- more sellers unlimited plat
10/2005 $30 <---- more sellers unlimited plat
11/2005 $27 <---- more sellers unlimited plat
12/2005 $27 <---- lots of reseller banning
01/2006 $25 <---- reseller banning ceased, all sites massive amounts of plat for sale
02/2006 $20 <---- current low price, exploit still in use
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Old 02-12-2006, 07:13 PM   #57
Discombobulation
 
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Then PM Kytherea or Rashere or Prathun with every exploit of this nature, probably quickest solution.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:08 AM   #58
cantril
 
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could you post the link to the reseller that's selling for $20? If there's no way to beat them in the current system, $20 isn't too much to pay at this point
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Old 02-15-2006, 04:16 PM   #59
Terek Lifegiver
 
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Yes, I'd like to know who is selling for $20. I tried to verify this information but cannot. Might not be a bad idea to buy now, either.

3 years ago i took my enchanter to 250 Jewelcrafting and it cost me 2k out of pocket.

This week, I was working a new chanter jewelcrafting and am noticing that since they changed the price, I lose about 300 plat every skill point. At This rate I will need 200k to get to 250 let alone 300.
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